My father challenged Kip on this very thing…the pope and the Catholic church and the structure Kip was forming was very much the same back near the beginning. His pride kept him on this same path instead of listening to my very godly dad. Very sad. One thing Coltin, I would recommend you rethink the Titus 2 and womens roles. Scripture many times addresses certain scenarios that are happening in that time and/or place and they cannot be understood without the rest of scripture. There are many scriptures that show women co-workers with Paul in spreading the gospel, some even imprisoned with him, in Romans 16 and elsewhere in the NT. We also know old testament women who were leaders, Miriam, Huldah, Deborah for example. Also, what about single women? Paul said a single woman can be devoted to God wholeheartedly…a woman did not have to be married..so does she have no role? Of course not. What about barren men and women? There are also many scriptures that reference the father raising the children. Homeschooling is discretionary and I think it is not proper teaching to make it seem like those who choose public school are throwing their children to the wolves (world). The bible takes no position on schooling, but evangelicals do…and we have to be careful not to be influenced by religion either and consider scripture fully with sober judgment. For example, what about the single mom who must work for a living and can’t homeschool? What about the family where the wife has the better paying job and the husband decides to be a stay at home dad? That is certainly not unscriptural, though evangelicals might say it is. Just some thoughts for you to study further. Also, there are many teachings in scripture that were cultural but are not mandated for all time. Douglas Jacoby hits on some examples with this lesson on women in the church here…have your bible app handy as he is teaching overseas and though he teaches in English the scriptures are read in a foreign language. https://youtu.be/Mw8jg-EFel4?feature=shared. I hope you find it helpful.
Thanks for your feedback. I hope to do more study and a video on women’s ministry/roles. (I’m currently working on it now).
However, Titus 2 teaches what it does (for married women with children). The ICC references this scripture to teach Women’s
Ministry Leaders, a role that is different than the scripture. My hope in this lesson was to point out the contrast of the scripture vs what the icc teaches as it’s tradition. (I think there are many WML’s that are suffering being forced in a role that was not apart of Gods plan, while their husbands are ignorant of what the scripture actually says).
Again, older women (no longer with young children) are to be teaching young married mothers what?
Super appreciate your insight, Coltin! In regards to the role of “woman’s ministry leader” and their nannies it’s equally important to point out that these young nannies are OFTEN working less than minimum wage (if paid at all) and are not only expected to be the caregiver but also “serve” as the housekeeper, chauffeur, personal assistant, cook, etc. to these leaders. This is on top of fulfilling their duties as an ICC member (daily recruiting quota, Bible studies, attending all meetings of the body, fund raising for Special Mission demands, etc). This exploitation and manipulation of young adults is so deeply rooted in the ICC culture that it’s openly preached from the pulpit. At the 2021 Miami Campus Leadership Conference, Jackie Chavez the SFICC leader, unabashedly stated during her lesson, “Sisters, if you don’t want to be a nanny than you don’t want to be a women’s ministry leader!!!“. Not only did this receive a rousing applause but it was also re-shared on social media by DOZENS of ICC evangelists and women’s ministry leaders who are benefitting from this type of slave labor.
To Bingo-Loved that you called out the nanny dilemma within the organization. Another alarming practice is when ICC leaders move from one church to another and/or lead a mission team, they will take a young lady with them to “serve” as support to the family which basically means doing all the cooking, cleaning, caring for the kids, etc. Essentially a house servant (or modern day slave depending on how you look at it). Alarmingly, these ladies are often coerced and/or manipulated to fill this role (eg. to become a women’s ministry leader) as you pointed out which is nothing more than exploitation of labor and in some cases human trafficking ESPECIALLY when state lines and/or international borders are crossed.
Yep. Many of these girls are quitin’ school to be nannies because they’re led to believe that in doing so they’ll get into the ministry. So sad! Kudos to Colton in reiterating that the ICCM is not a real college and the degrees are bogus. To all you ICC leaders- Clean your own homes, babysit your own children, shop for your own groceries… STOP(!!!) taking advantage of these poor girls.
There’s another group that uses the exact same “law of love” doctrine to justify all kinds of things. They even use the same terminology. It’s called the Children of God/Family of Love!!!
7 Responses
My father challenged Kip on this very thing…the pope and the Catholic church and the structure Kip was forming was very much the same back near the beginning. His pride kept him on this same path instead of listening to my very godly dad. Very sad. One thing Coltin, I would recommend you rethink the Titus 2 and womens roles. Scripture many times addresses certain scenarios that are happening in that time and/or place and they cannot be understood without the rest of scripture. There are many scriptures that show women co-workers with Paul in spreading the gospel, some even imprisoned with him, in Romans 16 and elsewhere in the NT. We also know old testament women who were leaders, Miriam, Huldah, Deborah for example. Also, what about single women? Paul said a single woman can be devoted to God wholeheartedly…a woman did not have to be married..so does she have no role? Of course not. What about barren men and women? There are also many scriptures that reference the father raising the children. Homeschooling is discretionary and I think it is not proper teaching to make it seem like those who choose public school are throwing their children to the wolves (world). The bible takes no position on schooling, but evangelicals do…and we have to be careful not to be influenced by religion either and consider scripture fully with sober judgment. For example, what about the single mom who must work for a living and can’t homeschool? What about the family where the wife has the better paying job and the husband decides to be a stay at home dad? That is certainly not unscriptural, though evangelicals might say it is. Just some thoughts for you to study further. Also, there are many teachings in scripture that were cultural but are not mandated for all time. Douglas Jacoby hits on some examples with this lesson on women in the church here…have your bible app handy as he is teaching overseas and though he teaches in English the scriptures are read in a foreign language. https://youtu.be/Mw8jg-EFel4?feature=shared. I hope you find it helpful.
Thanks for your feedback. I hope to do more study and a video on women’s ministry/roles. (I’m currently working on it now).
However, Titus 2 teaches what it does (for married women with children). The ICC references this scripture to teach Women’s
Ministry Leaders, a role that is different than the scripture. My hope in this lesson was to point out the contrast of the scripture vs what the icc teaches as it’s tradition. (I think there are many WML’s that are suffering being forced in a role that was not apart of Gods plan, while their husbands are ignorant of what the scripture actually says).
Again, older women (no longer with young children) are to be teaching young married mothers what?
Super appreciate your insight, Coltin! In regards to the role of “woman’s ministry leader” and their nannies it’s equally important to point out that these young nannies are OFTEN working less than minimum wage (if paid at all) and are not only expected to be the caregiver but also “serve” as the housekeeper, chauffeur, personal assistant, cook, etc. to these leaders. This is on top of fulfilling their duties as an ICC member (daily recruiting quota, Bible studies, attending all meetings of the body, fund raising for Special Mission demands, etc). This exploitation and manipulation of young adults is so deeply rooted in the ICC culture that it’s openly preached from the pulpit. At the 2021 Miami Campus Leadership Conference, Jackie Chavez the SFICC leader, unabashedly stated during her lesson, “Sisters, if you don’t want to be a nanny than you don’t want to be a women’s ministry leader!!!“. Not only did this receive a rousing applause but it was also re-shared on social media by DOZENS of ICC evangelists and women’s ministry leaders who are benefitting from this type of slave labor.
To Bingo-Loved that you called out the nanny dilemma within the organization. Another alarming practice is when ICC leaders move from one church to another and/or lead a mission team, they will take a young lady with them to “serve” as support to the family which basically means doing all the cooking, cleaning, caring for the kids, etc. Essentially a house servant (or modern day slave depending on how you look at it). Alarmingly, these ladies are often coerced and/or manipulated to fill this role (eg. to become a women’s ministry leader) as you pointed out which is nothing more than exploitation of labor and in some cases human trafficking ESPECIALLY when state lines and/or international borders are crossed.
Yep. Many of these girls are quitin’ school to be nannies because they’re led to believe that in doing so they’ll get into the ministry. So sad! Kudos to Colton in reiterating that the ICCM is not a real college and the degrees are bogus. To all you ICC leaders- Clean your own homes, babysit your own children, shop for your own groceries… STOP(!!!) taking advantage of these poor girls.
There’s another group that uses the exact same “law of love” doctrine to justify all kinds of things. They even use the same terminology. It’s called the Children of God/Family of Love!!!
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/sinister-law-love-children-god-16507883
They came into being in the 1960’s under their “guru” named Mo Berg, and the group became notorious for all kinds of sexual abuse.
Thus, Kip has placed himself in some very, very dark company.
God bless you for standing strong in the truth